Fifth Shi'a tradition

We feel that the three traditions that Afriki cited have now been successfully refuted, we now feel it important to cite to further Shi'a tradition that the descendants of Mu'awiya and Marwan are particularly fond of citing.

The alleged death of Zaid bin Umar and Umme Kalthum wife of Umar at the same time

Afriki had confidently asserted on UMME KALTHUM:

Ansar.org states:

Her son Zayd died on the same day as his mother, and the funeral prayer for mother and son was performed together.

Whilst Afriki was not speaking of his own accord, rather was simply regurgitating the vomit of his Nasibi forefathers, we would like to cite this tradition from a Shi'a text. We are doing so because we are fully aware having destroyed Afriki's citing of the al Kafi traditions, our opponents will cite this reference to prove that Shi'a traditions compliment Afriki's claims. Also worthy of note is a Nasibi contributor called "Harith" posted this tradition as proof on the Ahl-e-Sonnat.Org discussion page and made a direct challenge to us to reply to it. This is what he said:

Ansar.org states:

"Salamon alaikum Sunni Brother and Sisters
May a commend you for the excellent efforts of your team to counter the lies of the rafida. I would like to share with you this reference that should help us to further embarrass our opponents. It is from the Shi'a religions esteemed work Tadheeb al Ahkam Volume 2 page 380 Chapter Meeras:

"Imam Ja'far Sadiq (as) said 'Umme Kalthum binte 'Ali and her son Zaid bin Umar both died at the same time. It was not possible to ascertain who had died first. They did not inherit off one another and their funeral prayers were read at the same time".

So the Rafidi admit that Umme Kalthum was married to Hadhrath Umar (ra) and that she and her son died on the same day. If you present this to a Shi'a they just look completely shocked, I wonder how these so called great debaters like Answering Ansar have to say to this reference?"

Especially for ahl-e-sonnat.org and their Nasibi contributor here are our replies:

Reply One

Our opponents are fond of citing this tradition to prove that UMME KALTHUM binte 'Ali (as) was indeed Umar's wife. When these Nasibi are unable to find proof from the Qur'an and Sunnah, they try to advance this fragile claim as proof. We assert that all this is incorrect name application on the part of the narrator, if it was indeed binte 'Ali then we can advance clear evidence that destroys such a notion.

The foundation stone of the Tadheeb tradition and Afriki's claim is that UMME KALTHUM and her son Zaid both died at the same time. If this foundation is firm then the Ahl'ul Sunnah claim is proven, if it is weak then the entire argument falls apart, Afriki's claim and the Tadheeb tradition will mean nothing.

Reply two

Before performing an autopsy on this tradition we would urge Afriki to answer the following question that this tradition raise:

In which year did these deaths take place? (45 / 50 Hijri)
In which month did mother and son die? (e.g. Safar / Rajab)
What day did they die on (e.g. Thursday / Friday)
What time of day was it? (Day or night)
Where did they die? (e.g. Madina, Makka)
How old was UMME KALTHUM at the time of her death?

This tradition of Tadheeb is completely silent of these facts, so we are left with no other choice but to consult the reputable texts of Ahl'ul Sunnah, to locate the year that mother and son allegedly died. If this tallies up with the same year that UMME KALTHUM binte Fatima died then Afriki and his stooges are victorious and all the Answering-Ansar team shall convert to the Sunni faith. If on the other hand we can establish that UMME KALTHUM daughter of Fatima (as) died 12 years after the death of UMME KALTHUM wife of Umar and her son then the claim of Afriki has fallen apart.

UMME KALTHUM and her son Zaid died before 50 Hijri whilst Imam Hasan (as) was still alive

For proof we shall rely on the following texts of Ahl'ul Sunnah:

Asad ul Ghaybah Volume 7 page 387 Dhikr UMME KALTHUM
Al Istiab Volume 4 page 469 Dhikr UMME KALTHUM
Zakhair al Akba page 170 Dhikr UMME KALTHUM
Al Tabaqat al Kabeer, Urdu translation Volume 8 page 484 Dhikr UMME KALTHUM

We are quoting from Zakhair al-Ukba:

"Umme Kalthum and her son Zaid died at the same time. The funeral prayers were lead by Abdullah ibn Umar, Abdullah notified Hasan bin Ali".

This tradition locates Imam Hasan (as) at the funeral of UMME KALTHUM wife of Umar. She died in his lifetime. The Imam outlived his sister.

Imam Hasan (as) died in 49 / 50 Hijri

As proof we shall cite the following texts of Ahl'ul Sunnah:

Tareekh Khamees Volume 2 page 291
Zakhair al Akba page 141 Dhikr Hasan
Hayaath al Haywaan Volume 1 page 84 "Al Awaaz"
Al Fusul al Muhimma page 168 Dhikr Hasan
Tadkhira al Khawwas page 121 Dhikr Hasan
Al Maarif page 92

For the sake of brevity we shall only cite Al Maarif page 92 and Tadkhira al Khawwas page 121 Dhikr Hasan:

"Hasan (ra) died in 49 / 50 Hijri)"

From here we have proven that Imam Hasan according to Ahl'ul Sunnah died in 49 or 50 Hijri. He attended the funeral of UMME KALTHUM wife of Umar - so they obviously died BEFORE 49 Hijri. Afriki concurs with this and states:

Ansar.org states:

Ultimately she died while married to a third of the sons of Ja'far, namely 'Abdullah during the first half of the fourth decade after the Hijrah.

apart when we learn that there is a consensus amongst Sunni and Shi'a historians alike that UMME KALTHUM binte Fatima (as) died after 61 Hijri, since she was present during the tragedy of Kerbala, eleven years AFTER the death of her brother Imam Hasan (as) in 50 Hijri! If the Tadheeb tradition contradicts Afriki's claim then it is down to doubt on the part of the narrator, who incorrectly assumed that UMME KALTHUM buried with her son was UMME KALTHUM daughter of 'Ali (as). This hadith contradicts history, and hence can be rejected:

Umme Kalthum binte Fatima (as) was alive after 61 Hijri

We are citing Ahl'ul Sunnah's authority work Akbar al Taweel page 228 "Dhikr Khurooj al Husayn":

"When night fell Husayn left Madina, accompanied by his two sisters Zeyneb and Umme Kalthum".

The is a complete consensus amongst the Shi'a Ulema that UMME KALTHUM binte Fatima (as) was present at the tragedy of Kerbala, and we have cited an Ahl'ul Sunnah work to prove this.

There is no doubt that UMME KALTHUM was the grand daughter of Rasulullah (s), as evidence we shall cite Ahl'ul Sunnah's authority work - Ya Nabi al Mawaddath by Shaykh Sulayman Qundoozi al Hanafi Volume 2 page 354:

"When Umme Kalthum arrived in Madina she began to cry and recited a eulogy:

'City of our father to not accept us, for we have come with broken hearts. Fatima Zahra the pain that you witnessed from your enemies is far less that the pain that we have witnessed. We are the daughters of Rasulullah (s) described as 'Yaseen' and 'Ta Ha' - we are mourning before our father, Our grandfather Rasulullah (s), the people killed our Husayn and did not care what Allah (swt) had thought'.

This eulogy recited by UMME KALTHUM upon her return to Madina, from Damascus clearly depicts that UMME KALTHUM was telling her grandfather of her suffering. If this was NOT UMME KALTHUM binte Fatima (as) then she would never had referred to Rasulullah (s) as her grandfather. Also worthy of note is proudly declaring the titles that had been bestowed on her grandfather, and her pride at being his blood relation. Her act of calling upon Sayyida Fatima (as) and Rasulullah (s) is clear proof that she was the natural daughter of Sayyida Fatima (as), not the daughter of another of another of Imam 'Ali (as)'s wives.

If this is not proof within itself, then allow us to also cite the writings of the darling of Ahl'ul Sunnah al Muhaddith Shah Abdul Aziz Dehlavi. He wrote "Sirush Shahadhathayn" in Persian, that was later published by his son Shah Salamathullah Dehlavi as 'Tahreer Shahadhathayn". The book dealt with the tragedy of Kerbala and its aftermath. On Page 79 (Luknow edition) we read:

"Yazeed asked the people 'Who is this woman?' The people replied 'It is Husayn's sister and Fatima's daughter Zeyneb. At that point Umme Kalthum became very distressed she fell on to the head of Husayn, and began to his head and teeth with such force that she fell unconscious. When she regained consciousness she supplicated against Yazeed and said 'Yazeed in the same that you inflicted suffering on us, you shall never witness ease, neither in this world nor the next'. Yazeed then asked 'Is this woman Husayn's sister?' The people replied 'This is Umme Kalthum, the daughter of Fatima Zahra".

We also read in Lughutal Hadees, page 36 - 37 by Hanafi scholar Waheeduz Zaman:

"Ume Kulthum, the daughter of Hazrat Ali, when reached Kufa, she said to Kufans (when they killed Imam Hussain[as]), 'Do you know that you killed and tore apart a piece of the Prophet's life? He was so dear to the Prophet, that He[s] is in pain whilst in Barzakh.'..."

Lughatal Hadeeth, page 36 - 37

See Also:

Lisaan ul-Arab, Vol.2, page 176

Al-Nihayya Fi-Ghareebul Hadeeth, Vol.3, page 422

Sunni scholar Allamah Daulath Abadi in Hidayath al Sau'd page 259 had stated:

"Umme Kalthum the wife of Umar died at a young age in the house of Umar, she had no children".

This may indeed be the case but from the two references that we cited earlier that 55 year old Umme Kalthum binte 'Ali (as) was witness to the tragedy that befell her brother in Kerbala, she survived to tell the tale, and when brought before Yazeed in chains she spoke out against him.

Why did Abdullah Ibne Umar fail to support his alleged stepmother?

Let us for arguments sake accept that the Umme Kalthum binte Fatima present in Kerbala was the Umme Kalthum that married Umar in 17 Hijri. We learn from Sahih al-Bukhari Volume 9, Book 88, Number 227 that Abdullah ibn Umar was an ardent supporter of Yazeed, and made it clear that it was haraam to oppose him since:

"we have given the oath of allegiance to this person (Yazeed) in accordance with the conditions enjoined by Allah and His Apostle"

These words were said by Ibn Umar after Yazeed's ethnic cleansing of the Sahaba in Madina and the mass rape of their women folk. Abdullah ibn Umar had considerable influence with the Banu Umayya so much so that he was even able to spare the life of Mukhthar, despite his being an open enemy of the Banu Ummaya.

If Umme Kalthum in Kerbala was indeed Abdullah's stepmother then he would surely had some respect for on account of her relationship to his father. Would he not have sought to protect his father's honour by intervening and preventing her arrest? Why did he not seek to intervene and spare her the humiliation of being paraded without hijab through the streets, from Kerbala to Makka?

According to Ahl'ul Sunnah Umme Kalthum binte Fatima (as) died a few days before 80 Hijri

We shall cite the following Sunni sources as proof:

Tabaqat Ibn Sa'd Volume 8 page 482 - Dhikr Umme Kalthum
Al Isaba Volume 4 page 469 - "Al Kahf"
Zakhair al Akba page 170 - "Dhikr Umme Kalthum (as)"
Tareekh Khamees Volume 2 Dhikr Aulad-e-Nabi

We are quoting directly from Tabaqat Ibn Sa'd Volume 8 page 482 - Dhikr Umme Kalthum:

"Umar married Umme Kalthum (as) when she was under age (not baligh). She lived with Umar until he died. Two children were born from this marriage, Zaid and Ruqayya. After Umar she married Aun bin Ja'far, when he died Umme Kalthum (as) married Muhammad bin Ja'far. He also died and she married Abdullah bin Ja'far (who was previously married to her sister Zeyneb). She said 'I am embarrassed before Asma binte Umais, as two of her sons have died whilst married to me, and I am fearful with regards to the third. Umme Kalthum (as) married whilst married to Abdullah".

Tabaqat Ibn Sa'd Volume 8 page 482

Whilst we deem the entire contents of the above narration to be a lie we have quoted it since Nasibi Afriki had made the same assertions in his introduction. It is deeply embarrassing since it suggests that Umar married Umme Kalthum (as) when she was underage that contradicts Afriki's claim that she was of marriageable age. We have already proved that Aun bin Ja'far and Muhammad bin Ja'far were both martyred during Umar's reign, at the Battle of Tashthur in 17 Hijri. Umar died in 23 Hijri. Perhaps Afriki could elaborate on how many men were able to marry this widow of Umar, six years after their own deaths? This pathetic Nasibi had made this claim without conducted any research whatsoever, and then had the audacity to present his claim as 'fact'.

Reply three

In addition to the deaths of both men during Umar's reign, the option that Umme Kalthum (as) married Abdullah after the death of her sister is highly illogical since it would suggest that this marriage had taken place when she was a very elderly woman.

Whether Afriki is going to rely on Ibn Hazm's claim that Hadhrath Zeyneb (as) was divorced by Abdullah and THEN married Umme Kalthum (as) or she married Abdullah AFTER Sayyida Zeyneb (as) died is up to them. The harsh reality is these Nasibis will have to accept the fact that this alleged marriage to Abdullah happened AFTER the tragedy of Kerbala in 61 Hijri where Hadhrath Zeyneb (as) was present.

Do these Nasibi narrators possess any brain cells? On the one had they claim that Umme Kalthum (as) died before 49 Hijri and yet the same woman is able to rise from her grave and marry Abdullah bin Ja'far in 61 Hijri.

We are sure that no open-minded objective person shall ascribe to Afriki's claim, having read the proofs that we have cited. We have refuted this and have in the process refuted the tradition from the Shi'a text Ahkam that clearly cannot be proven if one analyses the sources that we have cited.

Reply four - Abdullah bin Ja'far participated in the funeral prayers of Umme Kalthum (as) widow of Umar

We read in Tabaqat ibn Sa'd Volume 8 page 484:

"When Umme Kalthum and her son Zayd died, Abdullah bin Umar lead the funeral prayers. Those that read (behind Abdullah) included Hasan, Husayn, Muhammad al Hanafiyya, Abdullah ibn Abbas and Abdullah bin Ja'far".

Tabaqat ibn Sa'd Volume 8 page 484

So Abdullah participated in the funeral prayer of Umme Kalthum wife of Umar before 49 Hijri, when he allegedly married the same Umme Kalthum wife of Umar in 61 Hijri. This source claims that Imams Hasan, Husayn (as) and Abdullah bin Ja'far were present. We leave to Afriki and his Nasibi brethren to examine these blatant contradictions and inform us 'who is telling lies'?.

If our opponents are going to suggest that one of the traditions was wrong on account of a doubt in manes by the transmitter, we shall likewise argue exactly the same on the Tadheeb al Ahkam tradition.

Reply five - There is also an Ahl'ul Sunnah belief that Umme Kalthum wife of Umar remained alive until 80 Hijri

We read in Zakhair al Akba Chapter 8 page 181:

"There exist two viewpoints amongst the Ulema in relation to the death of Umme Kalthum, wife of Umar.

She died before Abdullah

She died after Abdullah"

Even if we accept viewpoint two, then this becomes a matter of deep confusion for the Ahl'ul Sunnah as we read in Zakhair al Akba Chapter 8 page 212 that:

"Abdullah bin Ja'far died in Madina in 80 Hijri. He was ninety years of age".

Reply six - Imam Husayn (as) also participated in the funeral of Umme Kalthum widow of Umar

We read this narration in Tabaqat Ibn Sa'd Volume 8 page 464:

"Ibn Umar led the prayers of Umme Kalthum and Zaid bin Umar. Zaid's body was closer to the Imam. Hasan and Husayn were also present at the funeral".

Al Muhaddith Ismail Bukhari had also commented in Tareekh Sagheera page 53 (Ahmedabad) that the participants of this funeral were:

"�Hasan, Husayn, Muhammad al Hanafiyya and Abdullah bin Ja'far".

What we are led to believe from these texts are that Imam Husayn (as) was present at the funeral of his dead sister. This is false, as we have already established Umme Kalthum binte Fatima (as) was present with her brother Husayn (as) at Kerbala where he was martyred. She was imprisoned and returned to Madina in 62 Hijri, when according the sources of Ahl'ul Sunnah she then married Abdullah bin Ja'far. If Imam Husayn (as) participated in the funeral of Umme Kalthum (as), how is that the same Umme Kalthum was alive after Imam Husayn (as) was martyred?

Reply seven - The claim that Zaid bin Umar died at the same time, as his mother is also a lie

We read in Ahl'ul Sunnah's authority work Habeeb as Sayyar Volume 1 page 39 that:

"Zaid bin Umar was poisoned by Abdul Malik bin Marwan".

It is stated clearly in Imam of Ahl'ul Sunnah Suyuti's work Tareekh ul Khulafa page 215 (Egypt edition) that Abdul Malik became khalifa in 73 Hijri. So, on the one hand Zaid dies a natural death and is buried at the same time as his mother before 73 Hijri - and on the other hand the same Zaid manages to resurrect himself some 23 years later, to be murdered by Abdul Malik bin Marwan.

So from here it is established that the claim that mother and son died together is a lie, this further discredits the authenticity of the Tadheeb tradition that the Nasibi are so fond of quoting on Shi'a chat pages.

Reply eight - The Ahl'ul Sunnah can not even agree about 'when' Zaid bin Umar died

Islamic Website is a major Nasibi Site that is replete with Ansar's wonderful articles across it. In their article "Children of Prophet Muhammad" on IslamicWeb.com we learn:

Most of Al-Hussein's children were killed in the wars. Only two children survived after Al-Hussein's death. The daughter of Fatima, Om Kolthoom married Omar Ibn Al Khataab, the second Calipha. She had a boy named Zayd. Zayd fought along with his uncle Al-Hussein, in the battle of Karbellah.

http://islamicweb.com/history/children.htm

Cached version

That is very interesting, because the same website copied that classic paper by Afriki wherein he wrote:

Two children were born from this marriage, namely Zayd and Ruqayyah. After the martyrdom of 'Umar she was married to her cousin 'Awn ibn Ja'far, and after his death to his brother Muhammad ibn Ja'far. Ultimately she died while married to a third of the sons of Ja'far, namely 'Abdullah during the first half of the fourth decade after the Hijrah. Her son Zayd died on the same day as his mother, and the funeral prayer for mother and son was performed together.

http://islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/ummkulthoom.htm

Cached version

Just look at the blatant contradictions

Zayd died in 40ish Hijri
Zayd died at Karbala in 63 Hijri

Wow! Zayd dies in 40 Hijri and resurrects himself so as to be martyred at Kerbala some 23 years later.

Same website, two blatant contradictions!

Reply nine - The Ahl'ul Sunnah can not even agree as to 'who' lead this funeral prayer

One would have at least hoped that the least that the Ahl'ul Sunnah Ulema could do is have a complete agreement over 'who' lead this funeral congregation, but even on this matter a contradiction exists.

We read in Dar Qathani Volume page 194:

"Umme Kalthum binte 'Ali who was the widow of Umar, had her funeral and that of her son Zaid bin Umar read together. The Imam of both funerals was Sa'eed bin Aas".

Reply ten - 4 takbeers were read during the funeral prayers of Umme Kalthum widow of Umar and her son

We are quoting directly from the following sources:

al Tabaqat ibn Sa'd Volume 8 page 483 (Urdu edition)
Asad ul Ghaybah Volume 4b page 469

"Abdullah ibn Umar lead the funeral prayers of Umme Kalthum, the widow of Umar and her son with four takbeers"

al Tabaqat ibn Sa'd Volume 8 page 483

The Umme Kalthum that had four takbeers read at her funeral could not be from Ahl'ul bayt (as) since in the madhab of Ahl'ul bayt (as) five takbeers are read for the deceased. The recital of five takbeers, was the Sunnah of Rasulullah (s), as attested by the Sahaba Zaid bin Arqam (Sahih Muslim - Kitab al Salaat Book 004, Number 2089; Hudhaifa bin Yamani (Sunan al Darqatani page 191 - Bab al Janaza). Moreover the texts of Ahl'ul Sunnah confirm that Imam 'Ali would recite 6 takbeers for a Sahaba pf Badr and five for a normal Sahaba (Sunan Darqatani page 191 - Bab al Janaza). We also read in Fathul Qadeer Sharh Hidaya page 86 that Rasulullah would read five takbeers funeral for the Banu Hashim and in Kanz al Ummal Volume 4 page 57 Kitab al Shamil we are told that Ibn Abbas (ra) led the funeral prayers of Rasulullah (s) with five takbeers.

Funeral prayers with five takbeers was the Sunnah of Rasulullah (s) practised by Imam 'Ali (as) and other Sahaba. There is no way that Imams Hasan (as) and Husayn (as) would allow the funeral prayers of their sister to be conducted in away that contradicted the Sunnah of Rasulullah (s). As such we propose to determine WHO this Umme Kalthum was.

Umar had four wives called Umme Kalthum and only one son called Zaid

If Ahl'ul Sunnah are going to remain stubborn and still assert that mother and son died at the same time before 49 Hijri, then that is their choice. What is clear is this could not be Umme Kalthum binte Fatima since she was alive after 61 Hijri, nor can it be Umme Kalthum binte Abu Bakr since she was only five when Umar married her. Umar had only one son called Zaid and we assert that his mother was Umme Kalthum binte Jaweel. This was the Umme Kalthum wife of Umar that died before 50 Hijri, whose funeral was lead by Abdullah ibn Umar, with four takbeers.

If our Nasibi opponents are going to claim that Umar two sons called Zaid then we challenge Ahl'ul Sunnah to presents details of the births and deaths of both Zaid's to us. If for example one Zaid died in infancy then why have the Sunni scholars not written anything about this older Zaid - particularly when there is ample material with regards to the rest of Umar's children?

Umme Kalthum binte Jawal was Umar's wife whilst he was khalifa

Imam of Ahl'ul Sunnah, al Muhaddith Shah Waliyullah Dehlavi in Izalathul Khifa Volume 1 page 373 states:

"On one evening during Umar's khilafath, he sent some women to come to the aid of his wife. They helped Umme Kalthum binte Jawal dye her hair".

Izalathul Khifa Volume 1 page 373

From here we can establish that Umme Kalthum binte Jawal was his wife during his reign. The fact that women were helping her to dye her hair clearly alludes to the fact that she was a mature woman of considerable childbearing age. Our firm assertion is this was Umme Kalthum mother of Zaid, the same woman that read eulogies for her dead husband (that can be found in Asad ul Ghaybah).

Reply eleven - A narrator was uncertain when he referred to the servant of Rasulullah (s) as his daughter

We read in al Isaba Volume 4 page 247-8 Ibn Hajr Asqalani cites the following commonly held viewpoint:

"Rasulullah's Servant Burkutha came to be viewed as member of his family, as she was born after Khadija gave birth to their first born child Qasim bin Muhammad.

The fact that Burkutha was brought up in Rasulullah's house lead to an uncertainty that she was also the daughter of Rasulullah (s) when this was in fact not the case. The narrator assumed that Burkutha was the sister of Qasim".

The servant girl titled Umm Amina on account of the uncertainty of narrators had been referred to as the daughter of Rasulullah (s). In exactly the same way the narrator of Tadheeb was uncertain when referring to UMME KALTHUM (as) as binte 'Ali.

Reply twelve - the problem of 'uncertainty' with regards to the parentage of Umme Kalthum

We read in Asad ul Ghaybah Volume 7 page 386:

"Umme Kalthum binte Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib married Hasan. Two children were born from this marriage, Muhammad and Ja'far. Hasan then divorced her. She then married Abu Musa Ashari and gave birth to Musa. When Abu Musa died, she then married Imran bin Talha".

Here Ibn Atheer Al Jazari has also been uncertain with regards to the parentage of Umme Kalthum. She was actually the daughter of Fadl bin Abbas, (it was her life that was being discussed in the above narration), but she was referred to as Umme Kalthum binte Abbas. This is confirmed by Ibn Hajr Asqalani in Isaba page 4 Dhikr Umme Kalthum who states that Ibn Atheer applied uncertainty when he referred to Umme Kalthum binte Fadl as Umme Kalthum binte Abbas.

Both of these texts prove that the biography of one Umme Kalthum had been incorrectly applied to another Umme Kalthum - in the same way that the Tadheeb tradition referred to Umme Kalthum as binte 'Ali when she was in fact binte Jawal.

When the Ahl'ul Sunnah have used uncertainty when citing names, then we will argue that Shi'a narrators have done likewise. When a common viewpoint is held with regards to a particular matter amongst the people, then there is no doubt that this shall also influence narrator's views.

Despite the existence of such uncertainty over names / facts in their texts the Ahl'ul Sunnah have not rejected such traditions all together, rather they have acknowledged uncertainty on the part of the narrators. Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad narrates the following event:

"When the waiting period following the death of her husband has expired, Rasulullah (s) initiated a desire to marry Umm Salmah. He sent Abu Bakr to her with the proposal but he was not successful. He (s) then sent Umar and she agreed. Umme Salmah then said to her son Umar, 'arrange my Nikah".

This narration has been copied directly from Musnad by Imam of Ahl'ul Sunnah Ibn Qaseem Jawadhi in Zaad al Maad Volume 1 page 41. After narrating it he then points out that:

"Umme Salmah's son should not had arranged the Nikah as he was just three years of age at the time. The Nikah must have been arranged by Umar ibn al Khattab not Umar ibn Salmah".

Yet again uncertainly has crept into this narration. From the context the narrator was uncertain over the identity of Umar here, in the same way that the narrator in Tadheeb was uncertain over the identity of Umme Kalthum, and had in fact referred to a completely different Umme Kalthum.

The question arises, how can we rely on narrators who are uncertain over people's identities? We acknowledge that such an approach is incorrect, but it does not automatically make a narration null and void. We for example read in Sahih al Bukhari Volume 5 page 462, Kitab Shahadath that Sa'ad bin Mu'adh supported Rasulullah (s) during the ifk episode. Nawawi in his commentary of Sahih Muslim, relying on the comments of Qadhi Iyad stated that Sa'd bin Mu'adh had in fact been martyred two years prior to the Ifk episode. Again this constitutes uncertainly on the part of the narrator, despite this the hadith is deemed as Sahih. Similarly in Isaba under the Chapter "Dhikr Ruman":

"Masruq took narrations from Umm Ruman mother of Ayesha even though she had died in 6 Hijri".

Masruq narrates the Ifk episode with regards to the Sahaba's slander of Ayesha in Sahih al Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 602, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 464. Clearly Masruq must have also used 'uncertainty' here too since Umm Ruman died before the ifk episode.
If uncertainly with regards to names can be located in Sahih al Bukhari then what is the objection if we assert the same with regards to the Tadheeb argument? If this still does not convince the followers of Mu'awiya as a credible argument then we suggest they read on.

Reply thirteen - Abu Bakr's appraisal of the kuffar of Badr in a drunken rant and Ayesha's assertion that this referred to another Abu Bakr

We read in Ahl'ul Sunnah's authority work Al-Isaba fi-Tameedh Al-Sahaba, page 22:

"Abu Bakr drank alcohol, he became noisy and started to praise the kuffar of Badr. When Rasulullah (s) received news of this he attended the scene and found Umar with Abu Bakr. When Umar noticed anger on the face of Rasulullah (s) he said," We seek Allah's protection from your anger".

Al-Isaba fi-Tameedh Al-Sahaba, page 22

There is no doubt that Abu Bakr's drunk antics constitute clear ammunition for the Shi'a, so to defend the honour of the Khalifa the Ahl'ul Sunnah to sought to reinterpret the matter. In the commentary of the above narration Hadhrath Ayesha states:

"My father Abu Bakr bin Quhafa married a woman called Umm Bakree, he subsequently divorced her. A poet called Abu Bakr bin Shu'ab the married her and wrote a poet with regards to the kuffar of Badr. Due to the same relationship and names narrators had attributed this to my father".

From this commentary we are led to believe that uncertainly over names had been used by the narrator and that the finger of guilt had wrongly been attributed to her father. If the Ahl'ul Sunnah are going to reject the concept of uncertainty as not possible then are Afriki and his stalwarts prepared to go on record that the esteemed companion in the cave was son drunk that he praised the kuffar of Badr? If uncertainly is acceptable to explain this narration, then exactly the same principle applies to the Tadheeb narration, the narrator had incorrectly applied the name of one Umme Kalthum to another Umme Kalthum. Uncertainly can be located in Sunni and Shi'a sources.

Reply fourteen - analysing the isnad of the Tadheeb al Ahkam tradition

Not only does the Tadheeb tradition contradict history, namely that that Umme Kalthum had died and then somehow appeared in later history to marry again (two men that died before her) its chain is also weak. One narrator is Saeed Ibn Salma who according to Rijjal al Makoofi was an unknown narrator (Volume 1 page 68 and Volume 2 page 27). Neither is the Tadheeb tradition acceptable in logic nor does it have a reliable chain of narrators.

If the Nasibi still refuse to accept our replies, then we do not wish to waste any further time debating with the descendants of Marwan, these type of Nasibi will never be convinced even if we advanced 10,000 replies. We do feel that it is important to highlight some further flaws in Afriki's claim�

NIkah of Lady Umm-e-Qulsoom(A.S)

Monday 30 April 2012